How do you work out status?

[Poi Girl]

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How do you work out status when it is written down?

If I understand it properly ā is for people born before you (or above you in your family tree) and ō is for people that are born after you (or below you in your family tree) .

It's easy to work out when the question spells it out for you such as 'Ko Pare tōku māmā' (Pare is my mother)

However, when you have to choose an ā or ō option from a written statement like 'Rihari is his brother' how do you know whereabouts Rihari's brother is on the whakapapa?

The answer to `Rihari is his brother' is `Ko Rihari tōna tuakana' but how do we work it out that he is in the ō category?

[Kura]

Kia ora.

It probably goes without saying that the 'a' and 'o' categories are one of the more difficult areas of Māori to learn, which is why we're only tackling one piece at a time (there are many other rules we'll look at in future series).

In regards to your question, in Māori, the traditional way to express an older brother and younger brother relationship without knowing who has seniority would be:
Rāua ko Rihari, he tuakana, he teina (He and Rihari are older and younger siblings).

This is a more advanced grammar lesson. This is also one of those areas where there isn't a natural fit between languages so the rule we're learning at the moment on Tōku Reo won't apply in all situations. (Which is what's great about the forum, it's a chance to ask those questions and hopefully get answers).

Finally, to round out this answer, many younger speakers will get around this problem by simply using tungāne to refer to the brother of a male or a female, and tuahine to refer to the sister of a male or a female - probably in part to avoid having to work out who is senior or junior (tungāne and tuahine can mean older or younger siblings).

Strictly speaking though, for most tribes, this is incorrect (although there is one iwi that have spoken this way for generations and would assert that it's sound grammar). As you'll know from previous lessons, tungāne is only correct when talking about the brother of a female, and tuahine for the sister of a male.

Testament to the challenges of learning a new language, rules aren't always hard and fast, so often the most commonly accepted rules are taught.

On a positive note - these often complex word relationships do eventually become second nature.

Regards,
THE KURA TEAM

[Poi Girl]

Kia ora. It probably goes without saying that the 'a' and 'o' categories are one of the more difficult areas of Māori to learn, which is why we're only tackling one piece at a time (there are many other rules we'll look at in future series). THE KURA TEAM

Yeah, confusing eh? Thanks for your explanation though.

I guess the best thing to do is to just learn all the examples given in the episodes and the more familiar I get with them the better I'll understand it.

Thanks again.

[Kura]

Kia ora everyone.

We've just edited the above answer to (hopefully) make it a little clearer.

Kia kaha,
THE KURA TEAM.

[Tohe]

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If I understand it properly ā is for people born before you (or above you in your family tree) and ō is for people that are born after you (or below you in your family tree) .

I learnt it the other way around.
ō for anyone/anything Elder (Such as your maunga, awa, waka, tūpuna, parents etc)
ā for anyone/anything same or younger (Such as partner, tamariki etc etc)

[Terrie]

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If I understand it properly ā is for people born before you (or above you in your family tree) and ō is for people that are born after you (or below you in your family tree) .

I learnt it the other way around.
ō for anyone/anything Elder (Such as your maunga, awa, waka, tūpuna, parents etc)
ā for anyone/anything same or younger (Such as partner, tamariki etc etc)

So which is right?

[jarrod]

Anei ngā tikanga o aua kupu e rua mai i te papakupu a Te Whanake nei:

Ō - Used in the ways listed in 1 and 2 above when the possessor has, or had, no control of the relationship or is subordinant, passive or inferior to what is possessed. Thus, in most contexts in a sentence, words for parts of anything, clothing, feelings, qualities, transport, water, medicine, buildings, seating, bedding, land, towns, companions, superiors, relatives (not husband, wife, children, grandchildren), taniwha, groups, organisations, tribes and government are likely to take the a category.

Ā - Used in the ways listed above when the possessor has, or had, control of the relationship or is dominant, active or superior to what is possessed. Thus, in most contexts in a sentence, moveable property, food, drink, husband, wife, children, grandchildren, people in an inferior position, animals, pets and crops are likely to take the a category. If the possessor is active towards the possessed the a category will also be used.

Ki ōku nei whakaaro, he pai ake mēnā ka pānui koe i ētehi pukapuka i te reo Māori. Me whakarongo hoki koe ki te reo. E kore koe e mārama ki ēnei kupu mēnā ka pānui koe i ngā whakamāramatanga wetereo noa iho. Me kite e koe ēnei kupu i tētehi horopaki tūturu, arā i te real-life context. Whakamahia hoki i taua papatono (Anki). Mā te papatono nā e āwhina atu i a koe ki te maumahara me pēhea te whakamahi i ngā mea pēnā i te 'a' me te 'o'.

I reckon it'd be easier if you hear and read these in context and put them in Anki. lol Sorry, couldn't be bothered translating that paragraph above, but this pretty much sums it up.

J

[Taneipiripani]

Tēnā tātou e hoa mā,

While there are hard and fast rules surrounding a and o category relationships, the sheer volume of them makes it fairly difficult to memorize them by going 'right o is for elders and a is for younger people' etc etc.

You need to approach the rules one at a time. Correct usage can be attained by just listening to others speak who speak the language correctly and reading. Eventually your mind will start to record and remember the patterns it is being fed.

I just want to touch on the point about o/a indicating seniority in whakapapa because this has been an area of great confusion.

You use o for all people senior and anyone else on your generation level. So that means you use o for your teina because they are on the same whakapapa level as you. You use a when speaking of people who occupy the level below you - so tamariki, mokopuna, irāmutu etc etc. It is insulting (as well as being grammatically unsound) to say tāku teina as much as it is to say tāku tungāne or tāku koroua.

A partner is o category when you use hoa because 'friends/companions' are your 'equals'. When you don't use hoa before tāne or wahine then it is 'a'.

So to recap - approach each rule one at a time and listen and read enough te reo Māori so your brain can start making patterns and connections