Suggestion Box

[Poi Girl]

Five (learners) against two. We win!

I agree!

[jarrod]

Five (learners) against two. We win!

It was simply a suggestion, I didn't want to come across as trying to impose my opinions on everyone, however it's from personal experience with my own language learning that slowed down speech does not improve the ability to understand speech spoken at a faster rate.

I do understand that everyone here is at the beginning stage, and that certainly needs to be taken into account during the selection process of these dialogues. So my suggestion would be to make the dialogues easier (I know this can't happen for the first season, but for the second season?), and also to include a transcript, so that any words that pass through the sift can be looked up on the transcript. Providing that these dialogues aren't too long, I would be happy to transcribe some, and then post them on the forum You'd be surprised how much easier the dialogues will become to understand when a transcript is present. Of course, you won't be able to distinguish the words and sounds like you do with English straight away, that takes time - frequent listening is the key to speeding this process up (think of how you learned English - the idea that the ability to learn languages degrades with age, is in my opinion, a load of crap). Repetition is also good - repeat the audio several times, especially in the beginning stages of learning.

This is only a real summary of the method I use. I recommend looking at these websites that are dedicated to describing effective ways of learning language - http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com and http://www.antimoon.com - the method outlined in these websites, mainly the first website there, is the method I've been using for Māori, and I can honestly say that I could small-talk with someone about the weather, right through to discussing politics. And that's only after roughly six months, and I'm living in Oz as well...

Again, these are only my suggestions, but I can guarantee you'll see really good results if you implement them in your learning of Māori.

J.

[Poi Girl]

It was simply a suggestion, I didn't want to come across as trying to impose my opinions on everyone, however it's from personal experience with my own language learning that slowed down speech does not improve the ability to understand speech spoken at a faster rate.

Kia ora, Jarrod,

At no time did I (or anyone else I'm sure) believe you were trying to force your ideas on to anyone else. I saw your comments as suggestions that would help others. I've read some of your posts on other matters and you have always been helpful to members on the forum; and for that I'm sure everyone thanks you.

Your idea of a transcript is a good one. If all the words spoken on the show were translated into English and shown on the screen, things would be better understood.

I think that's what's at the core of the problem. It hasn't been helpful to suddenly have the hosts gushing greetings and introductions at us (speaking as if they were on fast-forward) without any explanation to the viewers.

It appears, to me anyway, that many of the members - well at least 5 of us - are still not confident in our learning ability, probably because we aren't in a position to speak the language with others (an assumption there).

The actors speak at the right speed. We understand what they are saying in an instant. That's the speed the hosts need to adopt - at least until the rest of us are able to string a few more sentences together without having to check our notes to see if we've got it right!.

[jarrod]

At no time did I (or anyone else I'm sure) believe you were trying to force your ideas on to anyone else. I saw your comments as suggestions that would help others.

Well that's good, I was just hoping it didn't seem like I was saying 'you need to this and that'. It's all up to personal preference in the end.

I definitely get what you mean with the greetings at the start of the shows - these should be translated as a full sentence, but also the meanings should be made clear for each of the words within the greeting.English will have to be a crutch until you're more advanced, where you could use a Māori-Māori dictionary.

And I don't think that the speed of the actors is too slow, I was expecting syllabic break down of each word, which is OK when you're learning the sounds of the language I suppose, not when you're learning the language itself.

well at least 5 of us - are still not confident in our learning ability, probably because we aren't in a position to speak the language with others (an assumption there).

I wouldn't worry about speaking until you have a larger vocab. I still haven't spoken to anyone else in Māori, but I definitely could if the opportunity presented itself (need to get in contact with some of the Māori speaking whānau I have over there )

You should try using the anki software (free) that I use, or any other SRS flashcard software. In the beginning I put sentences in Māori in the question part of the card and it's English translation and definitions in the answer part like this:

Question:
I tūtaki māua i tērā marama.

Answer:
We met last month
i = past tense indicator
tūtaki = to meet
māua = we (two people, excluding listener)
i tērā marama = last month
marama = month

And then slowly progress to Māori definitions in the answer field like this:

Question:
(Nō 'Te Kaieke Tohorā')
Whiri ana ngā taura here tāngata o Paikea kia pakari ai te iwi...

Answer:
taura = Ētahi weu (fibre) kua kōmiroa, kua whiria rānei kia ū, kia kotahi, kia roa

Even in the Māori definition, you could put the English definition in brackets next to a word you don't know, or look that word up in the dictionary and put it's definition underneath. But that's probably a couple months away at least, so don't worry about that

The SRS is good because it calculates the time you need to review the sentence before you forget it. You don't have to memorize the sentence, just review and see if you can understand it, and then rate your understanding of that sentence based on how long you took to remember it, and whether you had to think for a while before understanding the meaning.

Here's the link for the one I use - http://www.ichi2.net/anki/download/index.html

Anyway, hopefully all the suggestions in the thread are implemented into the new season to make it an even better learning experience! It's really good to see these shows promoting Te Reo, giving motivation to people to learn it, even to people who aren't Māori! So if some of the loose ends are tightened, I'm sure that this is what will be one of the things that will revitalise the Māori language, not just among ngā tamariki, but also ngā pākeke.

J.

[Terrie]

At no time did I (or anyone else I'm sure) believe you were trying to force your ideas on to anyone else. I saw your comments as suggestions that would help others.

Well that's good, I was just hoping it didn't seem like I was saying 'you need to this and that'.

Have to agree with Poi Girl. Everything you do on the forum is beneficial to others, Jarrod.

I definitely get what you mean with the greetings at the start of the shows - these should be translated as a full sentence, but also the meanings should be made clear for each of the words within the greeting. English will have to be a crutch until you're more advanced...

When I started the `Suggestion Box' thread I didn't mention the speed of the hosts, deciding that I'd probably be the only one struggling with how fast they speak. I'm pleased that others spoke out because obviously it's something that needs to be addressed. At the moment I'm still hanging on to my English crutch!

well at least 5 of us - are still not confident in our learning ability, probably because we aren't in a position to speak the language with others (an assumption there).

I wouldn't worry about speaking until you have a larger vocab. I still haven't spoken to anyone else in Māori, but I definitely could if the opportunity presented itself (need to get in contact with some of the Māori speaking whānau I have over there )

Wow, Jarrod, I thought you had been jabbering away for ages. You write Māori so fluently and have a terrific understanding of it. Oh, and "He-hum" we might have to upgrade that number of people still not confident in our learning ability to 6.

Anyway, hopefully all the suggestions in the thread are implemented into the new season to make it an even better learning experience!

Have to agree with you there.

It's really good to see these shows promoting Te Reo, giving motivation to people to learn it, even to people who aren't Māori! So if some of the loose ends are tightened, I'm sure that this is what will be one of the things that will revitalise the Māori language, not just among ngā tamariki, but also ngā pākeke.

And nga pākehā, like me!

I'm thrilled that members are utilising the `suggestion thread'. It has to be beneficial to both the members here, and the producers of Tōku Reo.

[jarrod]

Kia ora Terrie!

Have to agree with Poi Girl. Everything you do on the forum is beneficial to others, Jarrod.

Well thanks I'm glad that I've been able to give advice about my own experience (how ever narrow it is ) about learning Māori, which I'm still doing myself! And I'm really glad you started this suggestions box thread - good idea!

Wow, Jarrod, I thought you had been jabbering away for ages. You write Māori so fluently and have a terrific understanding of it. Oh, and "He-hum" we might have to upgrade that number of people still not confident in our learning ability to 6.

Nope haven't spoken to anyone in Māori.. just quietly to myself Hey, but that's not to say that I'm not confident in my learning ability But I shall join your group of learners nevertheless

And nga pākehā, like me!

Wow, I didn't know that! Good on ya for learning Māori It's cool to see people of different nationalities speaking a minority language. Just a month ago I saw a French guy on Te Karere speaking Māori. And there's also that Chinese mayor Ming.

And I can't say that I'm more Māori than Pākehā.. I've definitely been 'aussiefied', so I'm really glad that there are resources like this one that I can utilize to learn Māori, despite being in a different country!

Anyway, I think I should leave the message here. The last post I made was borderline short novel

Kia ora rā~!
J

[cherylcolan]

I just thought it might be a good idea to have a place where `suggestions' can be posted:

I've been looking on the Episode page and around the website, and I've searched the forum looking and haven't found it, so please clue me in if I missed it...

I am looking for an RSS feed for the Tōku Reo podcast episodes. I would love to be able to take them with me on my morning bus ride and practice. Is there a subscription feed available and I've simply missed it? If not, I would like to suggest one be made for future episodes.

[Terrie]

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I'm not sure if this suggestion has been made before... That if an example is given, then - at this early learning stage - it should be a complete example.

For example, in an episode where our actors are going around the supermarket we are told "in response to 'you'll never guess who I bumped into' you would say 'Ko Matt rāua ko Joe".

That's fine, but without the original question "you'll never guess who I bumped into" being said in Māori the answer "Ko Matt rāua ko Joe" isn't worth learning (at this stage) because the answer can't be practiced in conjunction with anything. All you would be walking around saying is ~Matt and Joe~Matt and Joe~

It would be better to say "in response to 'you'll never guess who I bumped into' (Firstly said in English - then Māori) you would reply "Matt and Joe" or ' Ko Matt rāua ko Joe".

[ReeceRobinson]

I was a little surprised that there was no grammar point made about the answer. I.e. why use rāua in that answer at all?

[jarrod]

Kia ora Reece,

I was a little surprised that there was no grammar point made about the answer. I.e. why use rāua in that answer at all?

I explained that a little bit here - viewtopic.php?f=7&t=195

I would recommend though, just getting several examples (including the ones I put in that post), and working out the pattern for yourself. That, I believe, is the best way to learn grammar.

J.