Question about the word `tana'

[Terrie]

In a recent episode (when using rāua) the word tana (his or her) was spelt without macrons.

In the episode (relating to the use of A and O) the word tāna (his or her) was spelt with macrons.

Is this because of the `possessive' nature of the word, was there a spelling mistake throughout an entire episode or have I missed something?

I look forward to your explanation, Kura, unless Jarrod beats you to it!

[jarrod]

Looks like I beat them But it wouldn't hurt to have a second explanation for this as well

Edited 17/07: Tana can be used where tāna can't be as stated below by Rāwiri and Murumāra. Tana also cannot be used to mean 'he/she has', as Murumāra pointed out. The only way you can really learn these things is by seeing them in context. Explanations and rules are good to steer you on the right track, but the real understanding will come from good input (books, audio, videos, etc).

Perhaps since the Tōku Reo series is almost up, maybe it'd be a good idea to practice some things everyone has learnt so far? Tell me what you think, and I'll start a thread up if you feel that you'd be able to small talk in Māori. It'd be really basic stuff, but I think that would in some way help retain some of the stuff you've learnt. Of course this in tandem with your flashcards (are you still using Anki?) would really help your language skills.

Nāku noa~
J

[Rawiri]

Kia ora,

Here's what I was taught about "tana, taana and toona".

"tana" is the neutral his/hers. used when you are not being specific about the passive or active relationship. some say it's a lazier word, or a word to use when you don't need to be specific. Or for learners, when they don't know whether the object belongs in the passive or active category. So "tana" can be used in place of "taana" or 'toona' but carries less meaning.

[jarrod]

Yeh that's perhaps a more technical explanation of it And makes more sense to me now that I think about it. Hei tauira (for example), you could say 'Ko Hone tana ingoa' for 'His name is John', but 'Ko Hone tōna ingoa' is correct out of a and o.

[Te Whanake]

Tēnā koutou

With reference to the use of 'tana' and 'tāna', while they both mean 'his/her' their use is not exactly the same. 'Tana' must be followed by a noun, unlike 'tāna' and 'tōna'. 'Tana' is the neutral or informal form and is not governed by the 'a' and 'o' categories. So one can say: 'Kei hea tana pene?' or 'Kei hea tāna pene?' (Where is his/her pen?). However, in situations where a noun does not follow, then you must use the long form, e.g. 'He pene tāku.' (I have a pen.) - it would be incorrect to use the short form. This rule applies to the other short form possessive determiners as well: 'taku', 'tō' and their plurals 'aku', 'ō' and 'ana'.

I hope this explains the main difference between 'tana and 'tāna'.

Ka nui mō nāianei

Nā Murumāra.

[Kingi]

I hope this explains the main difference between 'tana and 'tāna'.

Clear as mud. (only kidding).

[jarrod]

Kia ora koutou. Tēnā koe hoki e te rangatira e te Murumāra.

Yes that's definitely the main difference between tana and tāna when referring to something someone possesses. I was really only referring to the 'her/his thing' meanings, rather than the other meaning of tāna, 'he/she has' or 'that of his/hers'. I've edited my above response so as to not confuse anyone with a vague description.

That was the first time I've ever read that rule, however I know that 'He rorohiko tana' (He rorohiko tāna) or 'He poraka kākāriki tona' (He poraka kākāriki tōna) sounds wrong, just from seeing so many examples with that a/o after the 't' with a macron above it, and also from hearing it said a lot. I think people can perhaps get something from these rules and explanations, but IMHO, seeing and hearing this sentence construction and other tricky constructions frequently in a broader context will make it easier to understand and produce.

[Terrie]

Thank you very much for all your explanations.

I think I understand (and if I re-read the explanations a couple of times I'm sure it will sink in even more!).

I've not been able to get online since I posted the original question so I have a whole week's work to catch up on.

Perhaps, since the Tōku Reo series is almost up, it'd be a good idea to practice some things everyone has learnt so far? Tell me what you think, and I'll start a thread up if you feel that you'd be able to small talk in Māori. It'd be really basic stuff, but I think that would in some way help retain some of the stuff you've learnt.

What a great idea, Jarrod. But wait until after the series has finished, eh? (Gives me time to catch up) And I love the word `basic'.

[jarrod]

Thank you very much for all your explanations.

No probs Terrie. It was a such a tricky question, that even the founder of Te Whanake himself gave an explanation!

What a great idea, Jarrod. But wait until after the series has finished, eh?

Lol OK then, no problems!